- So, cut all activities that are not “ profitable”?
- Reference Jude Kelly departed for University of Maine, is the AD since Jan.,’23. Was assistant AD at Miami. Their hockey team is doing Very Well, this year.
- See College Hockey News online current article about The University of Maine’s ice hockey resurgence.
You’re all assuming throwing money is the answer to a people problem?
We need to start winning! (More often). That’s what will increase revenues via ticket sales. It’s why I still think a move to CCHA should at least be considered if this losing trend in NCHC continues unabated.
A more drastic (and I think mostly unwanted) measure would be to consider dropping hockey if we cannot “right the ship” in a few years. Maybe that means bringing in a new staff to see if things could be turned around first.
I know this subject has been touched before, but could Goggin main rink arena be converted to a basketball court (on a full time basis). And if it was even feasible, could the recreational ice rink then be retained for students and local youth to utilize? Again, I am not advocating for that option, but curious if it’s even a remote engineering possibility.
I’m not asking this sarcastically, as I follow Miami hockey less than MU basketball and football. From a financial standpoint, what is so different about supporting 3 sports now compared to 1995 - 2005? How were we able to fund all 3 sports and be good at all three most years?
Was that just a magical time, unlikely to be repeated? Wrong hires? Changing landscape of college sports? Football is in a good spot. Is it unrealistic to think that we can get all three back to a good spot?
I’m talking about a sustainability problem. An extra 325K (Bergeron’s salary alone), to say nothing of the rest of the expenses incurred by the team, would probably do worlds of good to other programs (e.g., the basketball teams) that are woefully under-financed.
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Just a quick note on the athletic department roles - Brad Okel who was mainly in a development role before, has just recently (1 month?) returned to Miami from his role at UC. He now is in charge of all revenue streams - development, ticket revenue and sponsorships. In addition to all of that, Brad has direct responsibility for helping Bergeron and the hockey program. Basically, he is set up in a comparable role to the one held by Jude. He will need time to settle in and propose changes, but I think this is great news. Brad left MU for a promotion at UC (his alma mater) and came back for another promotion - talented guy with good ideas for the future.
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For a small ray of sunshine, Ohio State sucks again. Won’t be ranked come Monday and headed for a last place B1G finish.
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I posted this 5 years ago on the previous HawkTalk site. As far as I know, the following is still accurate with possibly more endowments:
Several Factors Overlooked
Before I get into this dissertation – I am not a Hockey Fanatic. When I arrived at Miami from high school, I was a Basketball & Football fan. I did not know much about hockey. I now like all 3 sports and try to support each. Because of the following factors, I do not believe that Hockey is going away.
1 - While the Hockey team likely gets first choice for all usage, The Goggin Ice Arena is not “owned” by the Athletic Department – it is under control and budget of “Campus Services,” which includes intramurals. The Goggin is used by many different groups, including the largest broomball intramurals in the country. The following is from the university web site:
About Goggin
The primary purpose of the Goggin Ice Center is to provide the students, faculty, staff and community a space to engage in informal recreation providing programming geared towards all ages and all abilities. The Goggin offers a variety of recreational opportunities such as public skating, instruction in both skating and hockey skills, youth skating and hockey programs, travel hockey leagues, intramural and club level team play, varsity hockey and skating, and classes for educational credit.
2 – Over half of the cost of building The Goggin was donated by former Hockey players, including one very large donation. I do not know what strings or conditions were attached to that donation, but I seriously doubt that the Goggin will be converted into a basketball arena. Also, I believe that the Goggin is fully paid for, the majority by hockey alumni.
3 – Six or seven years ago (now 11 or 12 years ago), at a hockey function, I asked about endowments. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but I think 10 to 12 hockey scholarships are fully endowed, as well as some of the coaching positions. The football alumni have endowed some of the football scholarships and coaching positions, but with 85 scholarships, they have a long way to go. I do not think that the basketball program is endowed very much.
Conclusion – The annual operating cost of the hockey program is less than you think, because;
A – The Goggin is fully funded and much of the operating costs are paid by other organizations and departments.
B – Many of the hockey scholarships and coaching positions are endowed.
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Miami hockey sucks again. At this point it is not surprising. Under 10 wins seems likely AGAIN.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing D-Day.
Some has changed at the university since then.
Goggin and The Rec Center are no longer part of campus services and fall under the umbrella of Physical Facilities. Not a huge change as they still report upward through the VP of Finance David Creamer. David Sayler and AVP of Physical Facilities Cody Powell report to Creamer.
Goggin and Rec are still provided to the athletic teams that utilize them at no cost to the athletic department. Any expenses for hockey, skating and swim/dive do not include anything for facility use.
Both of these facilities operate at break-even with both receiving student fee revenue separate from the athletic department student fee.
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According to the Equity in Athletics Database (2021 data) we spend similarly to successful MAC institutions in both basketball and football. So the theory that hockey is draining resources that would make Miami more competitive in basketball and football is questionable. A more plausible theory without a deeper dive into the data is that the resources used on football and more so basketball have not been utilized to their fullest potential.
Miami outpaces the MAC in total spending. I’ve been told anecdotally that other institutions do not fully fund athletic scholarships for most of their teams beyond football/basketball. If the 90% scholarship funding proposal that came out this summer becomes the rule it could seriously impact some of these MAC programs.
Basketball
Ohio $3.3 million
Toledo $2.8 million
Miami $2.7 million
Buffalo $2.5 million
Akron $2.4 million
Kent $1.5 million
WMU $1.4 million
Football
Toledo $10.9 million
Miami $10.3 million
Buffalo $9.4 million
WMU $9.2 million
Ohio $9.2 million
Kent $7.9 million
Akron $6.1 million
Men’s Spending
Miami $18.8 million
Toledo $16 million
WMU $14.9 million
Ohio $14.9 million
Buffalo $13.4 million
Kent $12.7 million
Akron $10.8 million
Women’s Spending
Miami $9.2 million
Toledo $8.2 million
Buffalo $7.4 million
Ohio $7.3 million
Kent $7.1 million
WMU $6.2 million
Akron $4.9 million
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Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. Jeff Blashill and to a lesser extent Bergeron did an outstanding job bringing in players as assistants before going pro and to BUGS, respectively.
The assistants that replaced them weren’t adequately restocking the rosters, it took the powers-that-be too long to realize that, and the current staff has been slow to bring in talent and slower to adequately develop it.
If there’s any light at the end of the tunnel, this team has a decent amount of talent and I like what I’ve seen on paper from next year’s class.
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Thanks 2XH - whenever we’re not doing well in a sport I tend to read, “well since we don’t spend any money on…” Looks like our spending is competitive.
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And the original conversation was about Miami having the best chance to win a national championship. The last 10 NCAA hockey winners include Union, Yale, Quinnipiac and UMass, so I still say hockey is easily the best path for Miami.
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Will Bergeron be back next season?
If yes, how is that defensible?
If no, will we still be able to retain that talent?
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If any sport at Miami is cut, the right answer of what to do with the money is always going to be reduce the massive annual deficit that athletics runs up using student fees and subsidies from the rest of the university. A program is never going to be cut in order to funnel additional money to basketball or football.
This is actually an underestimate. Ticket sale revenue has been over 600K multiple time in recent years, peaking at 670K in FY16. Not seeing a year where basketball has been over 150K for reference.
This is annoying and I think is also true for the basketball scheduling. J-Term kills a lot of potential attendance.
For reference, based on the contracts posted to Miami’s site, these are the annual salaries:
M Basketball: $713,100 for HC, 2 associate HC, 2 assistants
Hockey: $678,600 for HC, 1 associate HC, 1 assistant, 1 director of operations, 1 assistant to HC
W Basketball: $520,000 for HC, 1 associate HC, 3 assistants
I think hockey’s revenue potential is more than 30% greater than women’s basketball, but don’t know that I’ve ever seen complaints about what we pay for coaches there.
Couples of posts about Goggin and I think this is correct. For hockey, the latest financial report shows $900K of indirect institutional support in the category of “debt service payments (principal and interest, including internal loan programs), leases and rental fees for athletics facilities for the reporting year provided by the institution to athletics but not charged to athletics”.
Not 100% sure how this is calculated through.
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<'emoji>informative</'emoji>.
Oh yeah, and BEER!!!
My liver has been adversely affected by Miami athletics!
Spot on. It is not only that student fees are being used to cover athletics deficit; that is just not enough. There is institutional money being used as well from different sources (but not from the “academic affairs” account).
A quite popular idea on campus these days is something along the lines “if we cancel sports at Miami, students no longer have to pay fees, and we can discount tuition less.”
So, I would think twice before suggesting any sports to be cancelled.
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In 1937, when The Golden Gate Bridge and Bay Bridge opened, there was a small fee to cross. I think 5 cents but I’d have to look. The story at the time was the funds would go to repaying the bridges cost and have an ample future maintenance fund created. The tolls were only supposed to last a few years. Now, over 75 years later, the toll is like 6 bucks a car and the funds are a huge profit center for other things. This is my rambling way of saying just because sports are removed doesn’t mean student fees would go away.
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