This was posted on the MAC board, but wanted to get it to every fanbase individually.
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I have to disagree with candle above Martin. Toledo constantly has a weak nonconference schedule compared to Miami that is constantly playing top power teams Toledo would never think about playing. Sure candle is 2-1 against Martin but if Gabbert was fully healthy for both of those losses I think it’s a different story, plus he lost the game that mattered most to a team lead by Aveon Smith who just transferred to a D2 school that no longer exists. Also he lost to Akron last year, you would never see Chuck Martin lose to a team as bad as Akron was last year. Miami has been out recruiting Toledo recently especially in the portal
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While the MHT crew here has differing opinions on Coach Martin, I think we’d all agree he’s no worse than 2nd, and has a way better argument for 1st than you offered.
You say it took Martin longer than expected to turn Miami around, and I’d somewhat agree, however Miami was SOOOOOOO awful when Chuck took over, and back then you couldn’t just dump 75% of the players and rebuild via the portal.
Candle inherited a good team, while Martin inherited the worst team in FBS (and wasn’t better than many FCS schools).
You say Martin is below .500 in the MAC, but only if you include non-conference games. In fact, he’s better than Candle in MAC record once he got Miami turned around (year 3, 2016). Candle 47-23 and Martin 47-20.
You say Candle is better because of all the NFL players Toledo has had. I’d say that means Candle is a better recruiter but not a better coach if their overall MAC records are similar, as Chuck wins with inferior talent.
Lastly, as pointed out by danielren123, go back and look at the 2023 game in Oxford and honestly tell me you think Toledo keeps Miami scoreless the entire 4th quarter after Miami had dominated the 3rd, if Gabbert doesn’t get hurt? Martin certainly came up with a scheme to beat Toledo in the championship where Miami’s QB was a D2 guy.
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It’s not like Miami hasn’t had nfl talent. We just had a bunch of guys sign UDFA deals plus we have had guys in the nfl recently play roles such as Dom Robinson, Sam Sloman, Mike Brown, and Tommy Doyle
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Probably Ivan Pace has been Miami’s best NFL’er during Chuck’s tenure (yeah, I count him).
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I enjoyed it until he started bagging on chuck. Candle is a giant underachiever so you can’t say Chuck is any worse when he’s won 2 MAC titles like candle.
Also: shitting all over Hammock is dumb. He won a MAC title and beat ND.
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It’s a Toledo site.
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Fair point.
They can still be fair and objective
Thats not the angle though. Its a semi objective MACaster who went to Toledo and currently is in grad school at Ohio. And a Toledo diehard whose name is on the basketball arena.
Some valid points here. Chuck is riding high at the minute and can get back to Detroit/ beat UT/ or have Toledo underachieve again and then the debate slants toward chuck. Candle was the OC under Campbel so the top 40 offenses are his badge of honor from 2012-2015. He inherited a hot program because of himself.
Toledo beat MU and NIU last year. Lost to UB (didnt play MU), Ohio (beat MU by 35), BG (who MU did beat), and Akron in OT when the best fg kicker in the nation by percentage going in missed 3. It happens.
As far as Miami scheduling teams Toledo doesnt in the non con… Miami schedules more of them for sure. Way more opportunities to impress. But our last 5 non cons excluding the bowl win are a Win at Miss State by 24, loss to Illinois by 2, An ass whooping to Ohio State, a 2 point loss to Notre Dame, and a 2 score loss to Kentucky where UT was tied at half and QB went down and Toledos offense stalled. Id hardly say thats a weak schedule. Northwestern wouldnt schedule UT in their wildest dreams. Looking at historical figures UT has played the least B1G teams tied with Kent of any MAC program. Less buy games, still not bad quality, and usually paired with a good G5 on the schedule like WKU, or SDSU. App Stare coming up in the coming years. The scheduling models are different. It generally inflates UTs win percentage over playing 3 P4s (dumb IMO), but lets not act like Cincy and NW are juggernauts as of late.
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Chuck Martins OOC schedule/record is also due to the fact he realized OOC record didn’t matter and all that mattered was getting ready for MAC play (as evidenced by our insistence of running through the middle despite it not working against power teams so the team would be prepared to run against MAC teams) which is part of why Chuck has done so well in MAC play especially beating teams that Miami should beat compared to Toledo slipping up against lesser opponents. I do think Miamis OOC schedule model will shift now with the expanded playoffs and there actually being a chance to make it now
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Speaking of Martin, I did see where some mention was made of a health issue…any insight as I sure hope he’s OK.
In my opinion, Martin and Candle are 1A and 1B. How you rank them is in the eye of the beholder.
Candle took over a class of the MAC program. Chuck took over a bottom dweller. If 6-2 is a good MAC season, Chuck has 5 in the last 9 years (4 in the most recent 7) and no losing seasons. Candle has 3 in the last 9 years (2 in his first two years that he inherited and only 1 in the most recent 7, although he was a part of those teams) and a losing conference season.
Its close, but I think objectively, Chuck has the better case right now. Candle has the single season jewel in the 11-3 (8-0) season.
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Hold on. MAC schedules were not created equally. Especially with the locked crossover with Ball State. Now theyre better but its hit and miss as we saw WMU not play OU, MU or Toledo in 2024.
Toledo had 2 losses en route to the 2022 MACC after they clinched on a 6-0 schedule. That was perhaps the only year with a weaker West than East since Candle has been at the helm, and we still dropped to BG with our broken handed backup and a pack it in vs. Lesters last game in WMU to stay healthy. But those 2 losses were worthless and yielded a title as some say is more important than regular season wins.
Who cares about Toledo.
Unsubscribe.
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Uh, last year two East teams made the MAC Championship
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There wasnt divisions last year… Before the split it was the MAC West who dominated for 2 decades.
Leave it to a Toledo fan to rationalize getting their asses handed to them at home by BUGS.
And here are 6 pages of posts on your message board under a thread titled “Fire Candle.” Gee whiz, how can you come here with a straight face and tell us Candle is the top coach in the league when your own fanbase wants him whacked? Talk about cognative dissonance (I realize those are big words for a Toledo grad so here’s a link to the definition).
https://csnbbs.com/thread-999873.html
Edit: Turns out there are TWO Fire Candle threads on your message board. You guys sure do love your coach, dontcha. https://csnbbs.com/thread-934229.html
Back to lurking.
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Jason Candle is an underachiever. Flip him and Chris Creighton and Toledo is a monster while EMU is a 2 win team every year. GTFOH.