Co-op is huge at UC, and is required for certain majors, like engineering and architecture. I have a niece and a nephew who both cooped thru UC’s engineering school. The niece cooped at Northrup Grumman and had a job waiting after graduation. The nephew found that it wasn’t his cup of tea and dropped out (he’s doing quite well despite that).
Because of coop, UC is going to have a low 4-year graduation rate.
UC still has “inner-city problems,” but the area has been steadily redeveloped over the years, and the campus has expanded east, all the way to I-71 - mostly for research buildings.
Inner-city Cincinnati in general has experienced a rebirth.
A couple other data points:
In the 80’s, the average ACT score at UC was 24. It’s now 27. 24 is now the 25th percentile, 29 is the 75th percentile. That’s not elite, but the student body is capable.
Applications to the school have exploded. I think this year the number is around 33,000. A few years ago it was in the lower 20’s.
UC wants to grow enrollment to 60k. My brother owns rental housing near campus, and we talk about the demand for housing and the ability to raise rent. He’s happy.
Oxford is idyllic, and I have happy memories there. It is rather limited with regards to activities outside of bar hopping (I bartended in Oxford).
I drank in Oxford…had a car and did my fraternity Friday afternoon “Milk Runs” to Hamilton. Charged $.25 corkage per bottle…paid for my gas and bourbon… of course, that was when gas was $.27 a gallon and alcohol was also a lot less expensive.
UC doesn’t have “boot camp” withe President Crawford and Renate Crawford at Lewis Place!
Mixed thoughts on the co-op thing, not knowing how much they get paid during the co-op. I can’t imagine it is what a graduate would be making. so if co-op about 1 year in aggregate and made, $40K great. But if starting salaries are $60K, wouldn’t you have been better off getting out of school in 4 years and making $120K your 5th and 6th year out of HS, vs. graduating in 5 years and making $40K + $60K = $100K?
I believe (but don’t quote me) that successful co-ops tend to result in job offers. Bird in the hand and all that.
My son is a freshman Computer Science major at UC, in the Engineering College. His program is a 5-year program and kids make an average of $57k during their co-ops. So I don’t think the finances are that much different (tuition isn’t charged during his 5 co-ops). As Chuck points out, UC co-ops usually result in a full-time offer.
We visited Miami and I will be at Nippert wearing a Miami shirt on Saturday night. And while Clifton isn’t my ideal college scene, the CS program at UC - partially because of the co-op program - is better than Miami’s. Like any college decision, there were many factors, but UC was the right choice for my son.
I can attest to that. Other benefits include experience on your resume and a better idea of what you might enjoy. In my experience the co-op office was very hands off, but the connections were there so I had very little to do other than use the system and interview; grades and extra-curriculars also have their influence.
You’re about to see a mass exodus next Sunday when we snatch the soul of that god awful shit school.
Computer Science is an interesting one because some employers do look for personal projects or work experience to guide hiring decisions, while some just look for smart students (with coding interviews) and are happy to mold them into good employees within the company specific policies. My first employer out of Miami fell into the second category and hired equally from large state flagships to tiny schools I’d never heard of, and without much consideration of past experience.
Never hurts to get work experience under your belt and verify that you actually like it, but in my personal experience it wasn’t as necessary as others I knew in different majors. Making far more than $60k your first year out of college is also very realistic. Good luck to your son, it’s definitely an exciting field to be getting into.
As my anecdote, most companies I’ve been at (I’m a CS grad) actively avoid UC. Amazon, Google, and Meta were pretty heavy recruiters from Miami when I graduated. And while decent companies do the co-op engagements, they’re not at the equivalent level of internships at many of the more prestigious companies. When I was weighing the numbers, UC grad tends to graduate late because of the co-op and it ended up costing them anywhere from $60k-200k depending on where they could have ended up. I see most UC grads ending up at companies like Kroger and P&G, which are nice, but not exactly places where people are lining up to take roles.
While @thechuck_2112 is right that successful co-ops tend to lead to offers, so do internships. And just about everywhere has them. Most of my graduating class had full time offers landed before their senior year started because of their internship following junior year.
And just to share the math: UC is a 5 year program. While @19goSkins quoted an average of $57k for the co-op, it’s actually just over $43k annualized. So you graduate a year late to for-go an average starting salary of $69k. And not only do you not get the full $43k, you only get 15 wks worth. Again, that ignores that most Miami CS students also do internships over the summer. My data is anecdotal, but $20/hr for a CS internship is what I would consider on the low side. Last I checked, the mid-career earnings were significantly tilted in Miami’s favor as well.
@JiveHawk is spot on. Miami also has co-op programs (see, for example, CEC: Internships and Co-ops | College of Engineering and Computing | Miami University), but they are not mandatory or even that popular. CS kids, and more specifically, those who specialize in AI and cybersecurity, are receiving outrageously good job offers. The situation is so “bad” (meaning good for the students) that the CSE dept. is struggling to find local talented students to attend their graduate program (even when tuition + fees are covered and students get a stipend good enough to live decently)
This relates to my WVU comment above. In 2014, West Virginia University had a plan to increase enrollment to 40,000 by 2020, which was an increase of 7,000 students. They went on a building frenzy, issuing debt like there was no tomorrow. Fast forward, their enrollment actually dropped 10% since 2015. They are now firing tenured professors, closing the entire languages department, etc., due to budget issues caused in part by their debt.
Due to potential spillover effects, my concern is that UC might be doing something similar. My guess is that they will issue a lot of debt to build new dorms (Proposed $125 million UC housing project could add 450 student beds – Marcus & Millichap | Andrews-Dickman Group). They have already issued $85.5 million as debt to pay for the new Clifton Court Building (source: Clifton Court Hall construction set for May completion). The Board of Trustees approved $134 million to build the new athletics complex (it was estimated at $100 million before), and the university believes they can raise enough money from donors to pay for that. They have raised $88 million so far. (source: Cincinnati Bearcats unveil indoor practice facility plans)
Although UC is aggressively recruiting students from abroad and out-of-state, what happens if the students don’t come? (Old NY Times article about UC on this topic: If You Build It, They Will Come ... Won’t They? - The New York Times)
As of June 30, 2022, UC’s debt was $1.26 billion (source: https://www.uc.edu/content/dam/refresh/af-62/controller’s-office/AuditedFinancialReport2022.pdf [page 9])
For comparison’s sake, as of 2019, Miami’s debt was $612 million. For the finance/accounting inclined folks, this is a very interesting document: https://miamioh.edu/_files/documents/about-miami/president/bot/2020/fa-minutes-02-20-20.pdf (look at page 74 for a debt comparison between Miami and other universities)
Interesting. Curious if Bond ratings the same four years later, or did they perhaps drop to A1.
For Miami, yes. For its Series 2022A, Miami received Aa3 from Moody and AA from Fitch.
This is the expert analysis I have come to expect from Miami Hawk Talk!
Three years ago, UC entered a partnership with Microsoft to develop tech talent in The State of Ohio. This would imply that Microsoft has an interest in hiring UC talent.
The notion that students aren’t lining up for jobs at PG is not true. It’s a tough job to get. Pay and benefits are rock solid. I would agree about Kroger possibly but I’m more of a Piggly Wiggly guy so hard to really know.
For IT jobs. IT is not computer science, but it’s where many UC CS students end up because they can’t get topical CS jobs. Politely, it’s done because Ohio has a ton of data centers and they can pull students to staff them cheaply from UC. All they had to do was give them free access to LinkedIn learning…
@YellowNumber5 - for many roles, yes, I agree. R&D and business roles are tough to come by. Their roles for CS grads aren’t those though.
I really have to dust off my memory for this stuff (I no longer live near campus, nor in Cincinnati), but UC in general has been on a building boom since the mid-90’s. The campus looks very little like it did 25 years ago and UC has spent billions. I remember there were financial issues about 15 years ago due to commitments to off-campus developments, but I believe UC’s bond rating is similar to Miami’s, or maybe a half-notch lower.
I was told the buildings in the new Innovation District bordering I-71 are leased but not owned by the University.
Enrollment: in the early 2000s, UC enrollment for all campuses was around 33,000. Now it’s 50,000, even as demographics - particularly in the State of Ohio - are poor. Other Ohio publics - like Wright State, for example - are struggling mightily.
As I previously mentioned, applications to UC have surged. It’s now around 33,000, while a few years ago it was around 23,000. 10 years ago, it was in the mid-upper teens. I understand UC has been recruiting Ohio extensively even as Ohio State goes national.
Most recently, the enrollment boom has occurred with the 2-year branch campuses and online programs.
Housing: Most of the housing development has been private. There’s a huge high-rise private development going up across the street that’s committed to students. My nephew parked himself in one that’s on University property on Calhoun (directly overlooking the soccer field) but owned by a private developer.
Last year, UC had a housing crunch. This year, they have a record for freshmen living on-campus.
As far as who is paying for the $130m practice facility, I’m sure some donors will pay up. The money in the b12 will be sooo much better than the AAC.
I don’t know the details behind West Virginia’s “demise,” but the state is poor and shrinking. I don’t understand UC’s need for 60k, but they seem to have a handle on it.