Kennesaw Mountain Landis has to be rolling in his grave right now. Born just down the road from Oxford in McGonagle
And Pete Rose is reinstated too.
You mean Millville, not McGonigle
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I stand corrected. Thanks for point it out.
I’m fighting a sinus infection and my head is gunked up. I’m happy I can tie my shoes right now.
Some of the black Sox seemed to have been unfairly punished (Joe Jackson in particular). Supposedly he never really wanted to take part in the bribery and had to be forced into taking the money. His stats really weren’t bad in the World Series although some say he didn’t make some routine plays.
Also some say that if Red Faber was healthy the white Sox win that series regardless of the players that accepted the bribes
I’m curious if Rose gets the steroid-era treatment where he’s eligible but people are pissed off enough to snub him. A bit different than the likes of Bonds and Clemens when he’s dead, but he burned a lot of bridges over the years.
I think if it was just the betting he’d get in but it seems there’s more than just that people are mad about
Rose not being in always seemed more about punishing an asshole than any moral stance. I expect he gets in sooner rather than later now that he has passed.
He clearly had a gambling problem and made mistakes, but there are a whole lot of alcoholics with drinking problems in the Hall so not sure why a gambling addict is any different.
I actually don’t have a problem with the 'roid era guys going in, that was the era of the game like it or not, but Rose didn’t cheat so I don’t like him being lumped in with Bonds or Clemens or the Black Sox.
I think the argument that Mr. Rose’s addiction is simmilar to the innumerable alcoholics in the game is mistaken. I also believe that those who would argue that his transgressions are no greater than the atheletes who used PEDs are wrong.
The one thing that can kill any sport is the perception that the outcomes are fixed.
In 1986 in the locker room of the Blue Jays spring training facility was a sign saying that “individuals who bet on baseball would be banned for(I believe) 3 years. Individuals who bet on games involving their own team will be banned for life”.
Everyone in baseball knew this was the one inviolate rule. At the time amphetamines were common place at all levels of professional baseball and just a few years later steroids would be as well. No one perceived those as crimes against the sport. I think Mr. Rose’s ban was just and should have remained in place
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One of the arguments used on Mr. Rose’s behalf is that he did not bet against his own team. First, i don’t know how that argument can be confirmed. Second, he was the manager. Betting on your own team today but not tomorrow is every bit as corrosive as betting against them.
If I am the manager it is assumed that i am attempting to win as many of the 162 as possible. If all I care about is winning today I manage differently. My starting catcher is due for a rest but he gets it tomorrow, not today. I may need my starter to go deep to preserve my bullpen for the rest of the series but that doesn’t happen. I pull him early and burn my bullpen giving me agreater chance to win today but screwing the team for the rest of the week.
There are innumerable ways a manager can help his team win today that hurts them over the long haul.
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Fortunately, Every MLB team is in bed with a Casino interest yet MLB acts pious.
See stats on the rise of domestic abuse with gambling availability.
Pete’s desire for the team and moreso himself to win was great, probably great enough that he wouldn’t have concieved of manipulation on that level but it’s certainly in the realm of posibility. However, not betting on them to win also sends a clear message to the bookie and runners that tonight is a good night to bet on the other guys.
I don’t think Pete was overly liked accross MLB but probably not so much that too many HOF voters would hold a grudge against him had the suspension not happened. A first ballot for sure but probably not 100%. Where Pete burned more bridges was his steadfast denial, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that he was innocent. Pete was so narcissistic that he thought he would be reinstated in a years time and no one would ever believe he bet on baseball. Giamatti gave him a chance to come clean and eventually so did Selig, he took neither opportunity and instead used his admission to sell books.
He’s an all time great and I would like to see him enshrined now in the HOF. I just don’t know that it’s going to happen, at least not for a while. We have to wait until what, 2027 before the committee that can put him meets.
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Also a pedo (allegedly).
We finished 2nd so many times he was managing…like maybe 5 times…So many one run losses from Mario Soto. Never added up to me…
Pete was always my all time favorite player and IMO the best Reds player ever. He played the game the way people in my era were trained to play. All out, give no quarter to the opposition. It was a time where players would be suspended and/or fined for fraternization with the other team ( talking with them on the field during pregame activities). Fights were a common part of baseball. Different era now.
I think all the guys whose play deserved to put them in the Hall of Fame should be in the Hall of Fame. The best player on the field of all time was probably Barry Bonds IMO. When the the best HR hitter and the guy who had the most hits ever are not in the Hall, it kind of makes the Hall of Fame a joke. The entire history of baseball involved guys who did most anything they could do to get an advantage. The reason Baseball went to 4 umpires was because runners would watch the umpire and cut second base short on the way to third when the umpire was looking in other directions. Pitchers have always tried to doctor the baseball with illegal substances, such as spitballs, using emory boards on the balls, using sticky substances, anything to give them an advantage. Batters used illegal stickem substances, they corked their bats, etc. The Houston Astros won a World Series or two by cheating by using technology to sign steal. There is at least one guy in the Hall of Fame who likely murdered somebody ( Ty Cobb).
Hall of Fame should be he best players, including those who got caught as well as all those who did not get caught.
I think it is widely speculated that Rose would bet on the Reds when Mario Soto was pitching. That may be a great way to win one single bet, but not the best way to win a pennant or preserve Soto’s career. Here are Soto’s stats from 1985:
In 1985 he made 36 starts, the most of his career, 19 of those on 3 days rest. In April, he made 5 starts on 3 days rest, including pitching 2 complete games on April 16th and April 20th. In those 2 complete games, the opposing pitchers, Len Barker and Jim Gott, went 5.0 and 4.2 innings, respectively.
Soto’s career was essentially over by the end of 1986, ended by shoulder problems. I’m sure Rose won some bets on Soto and the Reds in 1985. Do you think Soto knew he was being used? Soto was also a fan favorite. What was taken from the fans by Rose?
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Rose certainly contributed to the workload that cut Soto’s career short. I don’t doubt that Pete wanted a 4-man rotation because he wanted Soto to get more starts, even though Soto hated only getting 3 days of rest.
But the innings logged on Soto’s arm began back when he was 19 when he threw nearly 200 innings in the low minors in 1976. Add to that Dominican winter ball where he’d tack on more (80 additional in the winter prior to the 1980 season) and you see why he had shoulder, elbow, and back problems:
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I think with guys like cap anson, tris speaker, and rogers Hornsby in the hall who prevented desegregation and some of which were allegedly part of the KKK the character clause is kind of pointless
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Finished 2nd in his first four seasons but never better than 89 wins or closer than 5.5 games.
I have so many questions about that time period. Team had talent and should have been better. Then sweet Lou comes in and we win it all first year. Hmmm….
89 was a giant cluster because the Pete drama started in spring training and hung over the team until he was banned. Pete’s early teams scored runs and gave up a ton of them too but pitching was on the rise starting in 88. In 1990 several pitchers either advanced in their careers or over-performed that year. Hatcher and Morris were big upgrades at their positions allowing them to increase run production by over 50.
Not knocking them but the 90 team only won 91 games. The only time that would have earned them the NL West in any of Pete’s years was 87. They came out extremely hot in April/May (30-12) and were a .500 club the rest of the way. That’s largely why no one thought they would beat a 103 win A’s team in the series but they turned it back on at just the right time.
Add in a fresh voice in Lou after all of the craziness of 89 and it was just a right time, right place kind of season.
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