I had no idea, that’s awesome. Thanks for the info mz.
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Hindsight is always 20/20 -D. Mustaine.
It certainly appears that not adding rental pitchers at the deadline was the right move for the long term future of the team.
According to Krall, most of the trade requests for rental pitchers were not for Reds prospects further down in the player development system but for young players and prospects either already on the big league roster or who would debut over the final two months.
“Connor Phillips. Just about everybody asked for Connor Phillips," Krall said. "People were asking for Matt McLain and Spencer Steer and Christian Encarnacion-Strand. I’m not kidding. A team asked us for Andrew Abbott for a rental.”
Krall noted that many of the starting pitchers acquired in trades by other clubs did not finish strong for their new teams. Jordan Montgomery did well for the Rangers, but others like Lucas Giolito, Lance Lynn and Jack Flaherty struggled.
“Some of the starters that were on the market didn’t perform like you thought they were going to,” Krall said.
We should know Joey Votto’s status soon.
Teams have until 5pm Monday to decide on contract options. If they would opt out of the contract making Votto a free agent they would also have until 5pm Monday to exclusively negotiate with him.
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Reds decline option .he’s a free agent but wouldn’t be shocked if ends up with the Reds, albeit for a lot less than $20mil.
From reading the statement the Reds released, I’m getting the impression that they don’t want him back regardless of the money.
I agree, at least as how the roster currently sits. Should they trade one or two position players for a starting pitcher, that could change. They said it wasn’t money, and for once I believe them.
If the Reds had picked up the 2024 $20 million option for Votto, it would have shown that they are not really serious about trying to win. Their choice was to opt in and pay Joey $20 million or opt out and pay Joey $7 million and he would become a free agent. That is a $13 million difference. That money should be invested in what the team needs the most, a veteran starting pitcher who is a proven innings eater and who would be good working with the young starters.
For those who think that Votto would have some value to the team as a veteran leader, pinch hitter, sometimes 1B or DH please note that they already have a 33 year old who put up much better stats than Joey did the last 2 years and not only plays 1B he can also play OF or DH, plus his salary would be at or near league minimum. That would be Nick Martini.
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The Reds could have paid $13 million to Joey and $13 million to a veteran starting pitcher. Depending on arbitration money projections for their payroll for 2024 are as low as $55 million or as high as $74 million keeping them in the bottom 5 of MLB.
Martini may be old but that hardly suggests him to be a veteran leader who would outperform Votto. Martini has all of 141 games played at the MLB level to Votto’s 2056. It’s probably not outlandish to say Joey has forgotten more about hitting in the major leagues than Nick knows.
In the end these are just poor excuses to justify not signing him when Krall’s statement that they just don’t have the playing time he deserves/wants is all that’s needed.
“We don’t have the playing time he wants or deserves” is just a kind way of saying “if we thought he could still make a significant contribution, we’d have signed him.” Joey V was awesome for a good ten year clip. But then Father Time punched him right in the bread basket and the output hasn’t been so hot. It happens to all players if they’re lucky enough to play a long enough time. I will miss him though and hope they give him a role in the org if he wants one. He’d be a great hitting coach.
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Martini clearly out produced Votto last year. It was also Votto’s second straight year of terrible production.
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Martini may have played some of the best 29 games of his career but didn’t have enough plate appearances for any of the value statistics to be considered measurable. At 33 years of age are we expected to believe he would suddenly sustain this success through even the 242 plate appearances that Votto had? Double his standard stats and they would be right about even, assuming he would be able to continue to produce at a rate he’s not done since his rookie campaign.
He did not clearly outproduce Votto.
Actually, his best year was his first when he hit something like .296 for Oakland in 2018.
His BA for Reds this past season of .264 is in line with his career average of .268…has never hit for power, though.
Votto has had 2 straight poor years and he is 40.
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Love Votto but it’s pretty hard to imagine he’ll improve on his .200 BA performance from the last couple of years…he still has some power and could of course occasionally provide some pop while at DH or pinch hitting, but hard to see how it justifies bringing him back at the cost it will take.
Votto has (reportedly? I can’t remember where I saw it originally, but I know it’s been talked about in Reds message boards) stated that he wants to continue as a starter on a contending team. I am personally not expecting that opportunity to be available to him. So then the question will become, which does he value more; being a starter, or being on a contending team? I think there is still a small chance of a reunion if he is willing to be a bench bat for the Reds at a salary that reflects that. I’m hoping at least.
As far as payroll that was mentioned above; without any signings, but factoring in pay increases via arbitration, the projected payroll is $38 million. I could easily see the team getting back to $100 million, but I also think they will spend less recklessly than in the 2019 offseason that brought Castellano and Moose and Akiyama. I’m hoping they spend in the deep end for one majorly impactful player. Nola or Montgomery or Ohtani or Yamamoto. That’s the move this year, IMO.
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Not a lot of call on contending teams for aged 1B/DH who hit .200 with little power and oft injured.
I can’t imagine after his last two years that teams will be throwing the bags of money at him, however reports from the first day of free agency is that he’s been in contact with Toronto.
Either way, I’ll be sad if I see him go. Love the guy, love the player, love the leadership, don’t love the results on the field recently.
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Good to see the Reds making moves yesterday to bolster the pitching staff. Both are two year deals that allow for the player to opt out after 1. And while they didn’t land Sonny Gray and he went to the Cardinals (yuck) it was positive to hear that the Reds were at least in the conversations with him. Also positive to hear the Reds rumored to be in trade talks for Glasnow and Bieber.
If Emilio Pagan can duplicate his 2023 success he will be a big addition to the bullpen.
Nick Martinez could be rotation insurance or provide a long man for the bullpen. I would imagine the Reds sales pitch to land him was that he would have the opportunity to earn a starting spot in spring training.
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Toronto or bust.
I like both moves. Not long term deals, addresses needs, didn’t sacrifice players like India or prospects. I would have loved Sonny Gray but Cards offered more and got him. But these are both good moves by the Reds.
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