Well, then that makes each UC campus better than Miami. Will give you that @thechuck_2112 - would not want to insinuate that we should not kiss the ring.
Given this, then, have you looked at the other metrics of said UC campuses? Not in every case that impressive compared to MU. That is the point I was trying, but obviously failed, to make…
The 2025 U.S. News ranking was discussed at the Senate meeting this week. I didn’t want to create a new thread to post this, so I am reusing this old one. The two criteria that caused our ranking to decline this year were DEI-related metrics (e.g., PELL grants) and faculty salary. The union has been negotiating our contract for a while, and the lack of raises because of the negotiating process impacted the rankings. The slides are below—I had to convert them to images as I couldn’t upload the PDF.
Insightful
So thank you for the slides. I scoured them and saw nothing being considered in the weighing of rankings for basketball arenas. Unless that is factored into “financial resources per student”. It would be curious to talk to parents of current students, and let them rank these various weighting categories. And current students themselves.
77th for UG business. Sheesh.
The UG engineering ranking is very misleading. It’s 23rd for schools the don’t offer doctorates, which is a separate ranking that doesn’t include the best engineering schools in the country: no UC campuses, no Purdue or other B1G schools, no GaTech or Ivies or MIT or Caltech or Carnegie-Mellon or Texas or Washington.
And falling!
The competition is so tight among business schools that all it takes to drop 7 positions is a handful of well-paid full professors retiring and some leaving. Then the ones who stay don’t get raises and newcomers naturally don’t get nearly as much as those who left (some are assistant professors, some are adjuncts). That average salary drops like there is no tomorrow, and so does our position in the ranking (salaries account for 8% of the business ranking).
Additionally, some of the professors we lost recently (2 moved to UC) were among the most prolific researchers at FSB.
Finally, anyone spending 30 minutes with our FSB students will quickly realize that Pell grants are not particularly common here(from US News “Additional credit was summed based on the proportion of the entering class that received Pell Grants”).
This may look like I am “blaming the ref,” but very unfortunately the modern metrics are not helping Miami at all.
From US News: “This means only spending that can be associated with academics is included”
So, no, athletics doesn’t count here. I’m not 100% sure, but I tend to believe athletics doesn’t directly help with any metric.
Pretty much my point. Thanks for confirming. Athletics doesn’t help and neither do purely athletic facilities.
I’ll probably get some flack for this, but I think Miami should get negged for this. It’s a public university, and one of the core functions of a public university is that it should serve its state and region as an engine for social and economic mobility. I’m not advocating lessening admissions standards, but it’s long past due for Miami to shed the country club image. And besides, I think that image hurts with a lot more potential students than it helps.
I understand that the campaign has a large component dedicated to need based aid. Hopefully, that will help.
Miami’s admission standards these days would make Phil Shriver roll over in his grave.
Oh come on, based on this year’s freshmen class academic profile, your comment is complete and unfounded horseshit.
It’s good to have universities that serve the entire population and achieve social mobility for their students.
I’m not convinced having the incentive for this be “we’ll tell all potential students that you’re a worse university if you don’t” is a good system for anyone.
I was never a business major and had no interest whatsoever in getting my MBA, but am wondering if the rankings of FSB really matter? A friend of mine’s daughter is a first-year student at Indiana U’s Kelley School of Business, and is shelling out nearly $60K for out-of-state tuition. She could’ve gone to Miami, I guess, and saved ~$20K per year, but decided that the name of Kelley was worth the $80K increase.
Here’s my question: Most of the business school people I knew had a track of getting through Miami’s undergrad, taking the GMAT, and then going to Chicago-Booth or NW’s Kellogg. If Miami prepares for the GMAT and you score high, and you get quality grades, is the ranking of the undergrad program that make of a difference maker (outside of the Top 10 UG business programs)? Is the goal still getting the MBA?
Thanks for this information prof. How much of this decline can be attributed to the current administration at Miami and how much is related to just pure economics (e.g. lack of state financial support necessitates making compromises)? I am not a huge fan of the current administration and note that this decline has accelerated under his term. Is this just coincidence?
You are welcome! And thank you for sharing the basketball Arena news. Heads up, this is a very long and highly subjective post.
External factors:
Administrative Issues
While the above are all external factors, it is hard not to blame the administration for some issues:
Sucess Stories
At the same time, it would be foolish of me not to recognize some successes of the current administration.
Overall, Crawford is a great administrator when it comes to external affairs and a quite poor one when it comes to internal affairs. This in itself is not a problem when the President has an outstanding Provost to handle things internally. Unfortunately, that hasn’t been the case. The previous Provost looked for conflicts everywhere, the current Provost tries to please everybody and runs away from any conflict.
This post feels tailor-made for me to answer, I decided on Miami/FSB over IU/Kelley and I’m finishing my MBA now. I decided on Miami since I liked the smaller college/town atmosphere, got merit scholarship money, and was automatically admitted into FSB.
From my time in 2012-16, the school made a big deal out of job placement and starting salary in addition to national rankings, MBA stuff wasn’t a huge consideration. I’ve found that most get theirs to either help advance in their current industry where an MBA is helpful/necessary or make a career shift, most a few years out of undergrad at least. If our placement rate and salary averages are still strong versus competition it’s a good sign.
A couple of thoughts. OSU gets the same funding from the state as Miami, and they don’t seem to be struggling: 41st overall, 14th in UG business and 20th in the big boy UG engineering ranking.
Second, I’ve never considered Miami to be a liberal arts university. It’s a medium sized university with very large business and education colleges. Middlebury is a liberal arts college. The Ivies or Stanford or Chicago are much more liberal arts colleges if one wants to look at the percent of their students who major in things like History or Astronomy. Miami is absolutely undergraduate focused, but that doesn’t make it a liberal arts college.
Prof. THANK YOU. This is my kind of assessment!
Curious to know if there are Miami’s historical rankings, broken down across the categories? Would be curious to see the DEI ratings and its absolute effect on the overall ranking. Still seems like something related to graduation rates are the heaviest rated……salaries seem like a reasonable indicator….never was a fan of the peer ratings, however, I get that is important in academia. No student feedback taken into account?
